Minutes of the 21 August 2014 Teleconference

[Andrew Josey]

All
Enclosed are the minutes of the 21st August teleconference
regards
Andrew
----


Minutes of the 21 August 2014 Teleconference Austin-671 Page 1 of 1
Submitted by Andrew Josey, The Open Group. 22 August 2014

Attendees:
Andrew Josey, The Open Group
Don Cragun, IEEE PASC OR
Nick Stoughton, USENIX, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22 OR
Geoff Clare, The Open Group
Joerg Schilling FOKUS Fraunhofer
Mark Ziegast, SHware Systems
David Clissold, IBM
Matthew Dempsky, OpenBSD
Martin Rehak, Oracle
Eric Blake, Red Hat

Apologies
Richard Hansen, BBN
Mark Brown, Canonical

* General news

On the PASC PAR approval progress - Nick has completed action to
circulate the last known voting list. Don currently has the action
to progress.


* Outstanding actions

+Bug 0000251: Forbid newline, or even bytes 1 through 31 (inclusive), in filenames OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=251
Don has an action to produce a proposal.

+Bug 0000561: NUL-termination of sun_path in Unix sockets OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=561
Eric has an action to update the proposal.

+Bug 0000573: Please add '+' to the portable filename character set OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=573
Joerg has an action to prepare a proposed change.

+Bug 0000592: consistent use of struct timespec OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=592
Jim had provided additional information in bugnote 1627.
This was discussed and Jim took an action to provide further information.

+Bug 0000598: OH shading and new interfaces OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=598
Eric has an action to propose a new solution with self-contained headers.

+Bug 0000517: EBNF support OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=517
Action on Joerg to look at this.

+Bug 0000633: SIGEV_THREAD delivery renders many signal interfaces unsafe
OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=633
We noted that feedback has settled down on the mailing list, and
will discuss next session.

+Bug 0000657: Conditions under which fmemopen() write a NUL to the buffer
are insufficiently specified OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=657
Eric has an action to propose wording to clarify the behavior for
fmemopen(), and also to contact the glibc developers to get their
feedback.

+Bug 0000658: Undefined/unspecified behavior clauses in description of
open have race conditions OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=658
It was noted that there is some overlap with changes in TC1. Eric took an
action to update the proposal to resolve the overlaps appropriately.

+Bug 0000615: pthread_setcancelstate should be async-signal-safe OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=615
We now have reports on AIX and Apple. Jim to report back on whether
pthread_cancelstate() is async-signal-safe on Solaris. Andrew to ask
HP whether pthread_cancelstate() is async-signal-safe on HP-UX.


+Bug 0000672: Necessary step(s) to synchronize filename operations on disk
OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=672

Geoff has a new proposed resolution in note 1618. Decided to solicit input
from FS developers. Eric to go to Linux, David to AIX and Jim to Solaris.
Jim has completed his action (see bugnote 1691).
Andrew should chase HP and Apple for input.

+Bug 0000663: Specification of str[n]casecmp is ambiguous reopened
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=663

Action on David to follow up with the IBM developers about the EBCDIC
collation sequence.

Bug 696 either NAME_MAX shouldn't be optional, or readdir_r() needs clarification
http://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=696

Don has an action to propose a resolution.

Bug 0000721: Internal storage vs static storage OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=721

This item is still open.

Bug 0000375: Extend test/[...] conditionals: ==, <, >, -nt, -ot, -ef OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=375

This is still left open due to discussions pending on the reflector.

Bug 0000789: Add set -o pipefail OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=789


* Current Business


Bug #851: pthread_atfork orphans handlers in unloaded shared libraries OPEN
http://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=851

Action item: Andrew should try and contact to Finnbarr Murphy.
(Status: Andrew has sent a query to Finnbarr via linked.in
and also to his direct email)


Bug #854: requirement for additional built-in utilities to be searched for via $PATH was not and is not existing practice OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=854

Action: Andrew to ask David Korn to comment on this bug and the previous email discussion of the issue (seq 21270).

Action completed - awaiting response from David.


Bug #857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do unexpected things with its timestamp Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=857

This item is tagged for TC2-2008

On page 2937 line 97106 section make

Change from:

A target is considered out-of-date if it is older than any of its
prerequisites or if it does not exist.

to:

A target is considered out-of-date when all of its prerequisites
are up-to-date and it is older than any of them, or if it does not
exist. A target may also be considered out-of-date when it has the
same timestamp as any of its prerequisites.

On page 2937 line 97112 section make

Change from:

If there are no commands listed for the target, the target shall
be treated as up-to-date.

to:

If there are no commands listed for the target entry, the target
shall be treated as up-to-date. If a file corresponding to the
target does not exist after the target has been successfully brought
up-to-date, the target shall be treated as being newer than any
target it is a prerequisite for.

When no rule matches a target for which a corresponding file exists,
the target shall be treated as up-to-date. It shall be an error if
there is no target rule for a prerequisite that does not have a
corresponding file.

On page 2954 line 97847 add a new paragraph to the RATIONALE:

On most historic systems, the make utility considered a target with
a prerequisite that had an identical timestamp up-to-date. The HP-UX
implementation of make treated it as out-of-date. The standard now
allows either behavior, but implementations are encouraged to follow
the example set by HP-UX. This is especially important on filesystems
where the timestamp resolution is the minimum (1 second) required
by the standard. All implementations of make should make full use
of the finest timestamp resolution available on the filesystems
holding targets and prerequisites to ensure that targets are
up-to-date even for prerequisite files with timestamps that were
updated within the same second.



Bug #859: Add posix_random family of interfaces OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=859

Action Item on Martin R. to poll Open Group about sponsoring this
item for Issue 8


Bug #861: Add interface for querying name of active locale in a given category
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=861


Should be rejected, as it needs existing practice. Action on
Andrew to reply with the usual stuff about how to get new interfaces
into the standard


Bug #862: sort ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES list is missing TMPDIR Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=862

This item is tagged for Issue 8.

For Issue 8
Add after P2312, L107644:

TMPDIR Provide a pathname that shall override the default directory
for temporary files, if any.

Next Steps
----------
The next call is on August 28, 2014 (a Thursday)

Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific)

This call will be for the regular 90 minutes.

http://austingroupbugs.net

An IRC channel will be available for the meeting
irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs

An etherpad is usually up for the meeting, with a URL using the date format as below:

http://posix-aA9aGynHYqB/thfjNshNs9i2O/***@public.gmane.org:9001/p/201x-mm-dd
password=2115756#

--------
Andrew Josey The Open Group
Austin Group Chair Apex Plaza, Forbury Road
Email: a.josey-7882/***@public.gmane.org Reading,Berks.RG1 1AX,England
Tel:[phone] US fax: [phone]
Mobile:[phone] UK fax: [phone]

[Schwarz, Konrad]

Post by Andrew Josey
Bug #857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do
unexpected things with its timestamp Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=857
This item is tagged for TC2-2008
On page 2937 line 97106 section make
A target is considered out-of-date if it is older than any of its
prerequisites or if it does not exist.
A target is considered out-of-date when all of its prerequisites are
up-to-date and it is older than any of them, or if it does not exist. A
target may also be considered out-of-date when it has the same
timestamp as any of its prerequisites.

This wording does not consider non-existing prerequisites.

How about:


A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist,
is older than any of its prerequisites, or if any of its
prerequisites are out-of-date.


This captures make's algorithm of computing the dependency graph
before actually executing any commands.

Post by Andrew Josey
On page 2937 line 97112 section make
If there are no commands listed for the target, the target shall be
treated as up-to-date.
If there are no commands listed for the target entry, the target shall
be treated as up-to-date. If a file corresponding to the target does
not exist after the target has been successfully brought up-to-date,
the target shall be treated as being newer than any target it is a
prerequisite for.

The above suggestion eliminates the necessity for this change.

Post by Andrew Josey
When no rule matches a target for which a corresponding file exists,
the target shall be treated as up-to-date. It shall be an error if
there is no target rule for a prerequisite that does not have a
corresponding file.
On most historic systems, the make utility considered a target with a
prerequisite that had an identical timestamp up-to-date. The HP-UX
implementation of make treated it as out-of-date. The standard now
allows either behavior, but implementations are encouraged to follow
the example set by HP-UX. This is especially important on filesystems
where the timestamp resolution is the minimum (1 second) required by
the standard. All implementations of make should make full use of the
finest timestamp resolution available on the filesystems holding
targets and prerequisites to ensure that targets are up-to-date even
for prerequisite files with timestamps that were updated within the
same second.
Bug #859: Add posix_random family of interfaces OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=859
Action Item on Martin R. to poll Open Group about sponsoring this item
for Issue 8
Bug #861: Add interface for querying name of active locale in a given category
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=861
Should be rejected, as it needs existing practice. Action on
Andrew to reply with the usual stuff about how to get new interfaces
into the standard
Bug #862: sort ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES list is missing TMPDIR Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=862
This item is tagged for Issue 8.
For Issue 8
TMPDIR Provide a pathname that shall override the default directory
for temporary files, if any.
Next Steps
----------
The next call is on August 28, 2014 (a Thursday)
Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific)
This call will be for the regular 90 minutes.
http://austingroupbugs.net
An IRC channel will be available for the meeting
irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs
password=2115756#
--------
Andrew Josey The Open Group
Austin Group Chair Apex Plaza, Forbury Road
Tel:[phone] US fax: [phone]
Mobile:[phone] UK fax: [phone]

[Schwarz, Konrad]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Mittwoch, 10. September 2014 12:49
To: Andrew Josey; austin-group-l
Subject: 0000857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do
unexpected things with its timestamp

Post by Andrew Josey
Bug #857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do
unexpected things with its timestamp Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=857
This item is tagged for TC2-2008
On page 2937 line 97106 section make
A target is considered out-of-date if it is older than any of its
prerequisites or if it does not exist.
A target is considered out-of-date when all of its prerequisites are
up-to-date and it is older than any of them, or if it does not exist.
A target may also be considered out-of-date when it has the same
timestamp as any of its prerequisites.

This wording does not consider non-existing prerequisites.
A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than
any of its prerequisites, or if any of its prerequisites are out-of-
date.

Even better would be:


A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than
any of its existing prerequisites, or if any of its prerequisites
are out-of-date.

This captures make's algorithm of computing the dependency graph
before actually executing any commands.

Post by Andrew Josey
On page 2937 line 97112 section make
If there are no commands listed for the target, the target shall be
treated as up-to-date.
If there are no commands listed for the target entry, the target

shall

Post by Andrew Josey
be treated as up-to-date. If a file corresponding to the target does
not exist after the target has been successfully brought up-to-date,
the target shall be treated as being newer than any target it is a
prerequisite for.

The above suggestion eliminates the necessity for this change.

Post by Andrew Josey
When no rule matches a target for which a corresponding file exists,
the target shall be treated as up-to-date. It shall be an error if
there is no target rule for a prerequisite that does not have a
corresponding file.
On most historic systems, the make utility considered a target with a
prerequisite that had an identical timestamp up-to-date. The HP-UX
implementation of make treated it as out-of-date. The standard now
allows either behavior, but implementations are encouraged to follow
the example set by HP-UX. This is especially important on filesystems
where the timestamp resolution is the minimum (1 second) required by
the standard. All implementations of make should make full use of the
finest timestamp resolution available on the filesystems holding
targets and prerequisites to ensure that targets are up-to-date even
for prerequisite files with timestamps that were updated within the
same second.
Bug #859: Add posix_random family of interfaces OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=859
Action Item on Martin R. to poll Open Group about sponsoring this

item

Post by Andrew Josey
for Issue 8
Bug #861: Add interface for querying name of active locale in a given category
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=861
Should be rejected, as it needs existing practice. Action on
Andrew to reply with the usual stuff about how to get new interfaces
into the standard
Bug #862: sort ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES list is missing TMPDIR Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=862
This item is tagged for Issue 8.
For Issue 8
TMPDIR Provide a pathname that shall override the default directory
for temporary files, if any.
Next Steps
----------
The next call is on August 28, 2014 (a Thursday)
Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific)
This call will be for the regular 90 minutes.
http://austingroupbugs.net
An IRC channel will be available for the meeting
irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs
password=2115756#
--------
Andrew Josey The Open Group
Austin Group Chair Apex Plaza, Forbury Road
Tel:[phone] US fax: [phone]
Mobile:[phone] UK fax: [phone]

[Shware Systems]

Even better would be:



A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than

any of its existing prerequisites, any prerequisites do not exist, or

if any of its existing prerequisites are out-of-date.



This encapsulates that attempts to use a prerequisite as a target

for recursion shall assume that prerequisite is newer than the target

if the commands, if any, for the prerequisite's target rule, if any

again,

do not return an error.



-----Original Message-----

From: Schwarz, Konrad <konrad.schwarz-***@public.gmane.org>

To: austin-group-l <austin-group-l-7882/***@public.gmane.org>

Sent: Wed, Sep 10, 2014 9:01 am

Subject: RE: 0000857: Make rules which do not create the target file or

do unexpected things with its timestamp

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Mittwoch, 10. September 2014 12:49
To: Andrew Josey; austin-group-l
Subject: 0000857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do
unexpected things with its timestamp

Post by Andrew Josey
Bug #857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do
unexpected things with its timestamp Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=857
This item is tagged for TC2-2008
On page 2937 line 97106 section make
A target is considered out-of-date if it is older than any of its
prerequisites or if it does not exist.
A target is considered out-of-date when all of its prerequisites are
up-to-date and it is older than any of them, or if it does not

exist.

Post by Andrew Josey
A target may also be considered out-of-date when it has the same
timestamp as any of its prerequisites.

This wording does not consider non-existing prerequisites.
A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than
any of its prerequisites, or if any of its prerequisites are out-of-
date.

Even better would be:





A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than

any of its existing prerequisites, or if any of its prerequisites

are out-of-date.

This captures make's algorithm of computing the dependency graph
before actually executing any commands.

Post by Andrew Josey
On page 2937 line 97112 section make
If there are no commands listed for the target, the target shall be
treated as up-to-date.
If there are no commands listed for the target entry, the target

shall

Post by Andrew Josey
be treated as up-to-date. If a file corresponding to the target does
not exist after the target has been successfully brought up-to-date,
the target shall be treated as being newer than any target it is a
prerequisite for.

The above suggestion eliminates the necessity for this change.

Post by Andrew Josey
When no rule matches a target for which a corresponding file exists,
the target shall be treated as up-to-date. It shall be an error if
there is no target rule for a prerequisite that does not have a
corresponding file.
On most historic systems, the make utility considered a target with

a

Post by Andrew Josey
prerequisite that had an identical timestamp up-to-date. The HP-UX
implementation of make treated it as out-of-date. The standard now
allows either behavior, but implementations are encouraged to follow
the example set by HP-UX. This is especially important on

filesystems

Post by Andrew Josey
where the timestamp resolution is the minimum (1 second) required by
the standard. All implementations of make should make full use of

the

Post by Andrew Josey
finest timestamp resolution available on the filesystems holding
targets and prerequisites to ensure that targets are up-to-date even
for prerequisite files with timestamps that were updated within the
same second.
Bug #859: Add posix_random family of interfaces OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=859
Action Item on Martin R. to poll Open Group about sponsoring this

item

Post by Andrew Josey
for Issue 8
Bug #861: Add interface for querying name of active locale in a

given

Post by Andrew Josey
category
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=861
Should be rejected, as it needs existing practice. Action on
Andrew to reply with the usual stuff about how to get new interfaces
into the standard
Bug #862: sort ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES list is missing TMPDIR

Accepted

Post by Andrew Josey
as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=862
This item is tagged for Issue 8.
For Issue 8
TMPDIR Provide a pathname that shall override the default directory
for temporary files, if any.
Next Steps
----------
The next call is on August 28, 2014 (a Thursday)
Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific)
This call will be for the regular 90 minutes.
http://austingroupbugs.net
An IRC channel will be available for the meeting
irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs
An etherpad is usually up for the meeting, with a URL using the date
password=2115756#
--------
Andrew Josey The Open Group
Austin Group Chair Apex Plaza, Forbury Road
Tel:[phone] US fax: [phone]
Mobile:[phone] UK fax: [phone]

[Schwarz, Konrad]

No, adding "any prerequisites do not exist" is redundant: a prerequisite is out of date if it does not exist, per the first clause.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Donnerstag, 11. September 2014 17:01
Subject: RE: 0000857: Make rules which do not create the target file or
do unexpected things with its timestamp
A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than
any of its existing prerequisites, any prerequisites do not exist, or
if any of its existing prerequisites are out-of-date.
This encapsulates that attempts to use a prerequisite as a target for
recursion shall assume that prerequisite is newer than the target if
the commands, if any, for the prerequisite's target rule, if any again,
do not return an error.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, Sep 10, 2014 9:01 am
Subject: RE: 0000857: Make rules which do not create the target file or
do unexpected things with its timestamp

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Mittwoch, 10. September 2014 12:49
To: Andrew Josey; austin-group-l
Subject: 0000857: Make rules which do not create the target file or

do

unexpected things with its timestamp

Post by Andrew Josey
Bug #857: Make rules which do not create the target file or do
unexpected things with its timestamp Accepted as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=857
This item is tagged for TC2-2008
On page 2937 line 97106 section make
A target is considered out-of-date if it is older than any of its
prerequisites or if it does not exist.
A target is considered out-of-date when all of its prerequisites

are

Post by Andrew Josey
up-to-date and it is older than any of them, or if it does not

exist.

Post by Andrew Josey
A target may also be considered out-of-date when it has the same
timestamp as any of its prerequisites.

This wording does not consider non-existing prerequisites.
A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older

than

any of its prerequisites, or if any of its prerequisites are out-of-
date.

A target is considered out-of-date if it does not exist, is older than
any of its existing prerequisites, or if any of its prerequisites are
out-of-date.

This captures make's algorithm of computing the dependency graph
before actually executing any commands.

Post by Andrew Josey
On page 2937 line 97112 section make
If there are no commands listed for the target, the target shall be
treated as up-to-date.
If there are no commands listed for the target entry, the target

shall

Post by Andrew Josey
be treated as up-to-date. If a file corresponding to the target

does

Post by Andrew Josey
not exist after the target has been successfully brought up-to-

date,

Post by Andrew Josey
the target shall be treated as being newer than any target it is a
prerequisite for.

The above suggestion eliminates the necessity for this change.

Post by Andrew Josey
When no rule matches a target for which a corresponding file

exists,

Post by Andrew Josey
the target shall be treated as up-to-date. It shall be an error if
there is no target rule for a prerequisite that does not have a
corresponding file.
On most historic systems, the make utility considered a target with

a

Post by Andrew Josey
prerequisite that had an identical timestamp up-to-date. The HP-UX
implementation of make treated it as out-of-date. The standard now
allows either behavior, but implementations are encouraged to

follow

Post by Andrew Josey
the example set by HP-UX. This is especially important on

filesystems

Post by Andrew Josey
where the timestamp resolution is the minimum (1 second) required

by

Post by Andrew Josey
the standard. All implementations of make should make full use of

the

Post by Andrew Josey
finest timestamp resolution available on the filesystems holding
targets and prerequisites to ensure that targets are up-to-date

even

Post by Andrew Josey
for prerequisite files with timestamps that were updated within the
same second.
Bug #859: Add posix_random family of interfaces OPEN
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=859
Action Item on Martin R. to poll Open Group about sponsoring this

item

Post by Andrew Josey
for Issue 8
Bug #861: Add interface for querying name of active locale in a

given

Post by Andrew Josey
category
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=861
Should be rejected, as it needs existing practice. Action on
Andrew to reply with the usual stuff about how to get new

interfaces

Post by Andrew Josey
into the standard
Bug #862: sort ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES list is missing TMPDIR

Accepted

Post by Andrew Josey
as Marked
http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=862
This item is tagged for Issue 8.
For Issue 8
TMPDIR Provide a pathname that shall override the default directory
for temporary files, if any.
Next Steps
----------
The next call is on August 28, 2014 (a Thursday)
Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific)
This call will be for the regular 90 minutes.
http://austingroupbugs.net
An IRC channel will be available for the meeting
irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs
An etherpad is usually up for the meeting, with a URL using the

date

Post by Andrew Josey
password=2115756#
--------
Andrew Josey The Open Group
Austin Group Chair Apex Plaza, Forbury Road
Tel:[phone] US fax: [phone]
Mobile:[phone] UK fax: [phone]